1 00:00:23,010 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,660 --> 00:00:25,720 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:28,670 episode number 212 for the tenth of 4 00:00:35,439 --> 00:00:32,330 November 2012 Richardson is here with 5 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:35,449 you back in Sydney Australia maybe you 6 00:00:40,450 --> 00:00:37,489 can hear the birds chirping outside the 7 00:00:41,860 --> 00:00:40,460 window we just had a big our thunder and 8 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:41,870 lightning and hail storm go through 9 00:00:47,290 --> 00:00:44,890 about an hour ago now it's all steamy 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:47,300 coming up on this episode of the skeptic 11 00:00:53,290 --> 00:00:49,730 zone I let's back straight back to 12 00:00:55,660 --> 00:00:53,300 California where I just came from Brian 13 00:00:59,890 --> 00:00:55,670 dining and I and a group of skeptical 14 00:01:03,479 --> 00:00:59,900 friends went on a mud cave adventure in 15 00:01:06,250 --> 00:01:03,489 the the desert of Southern California 16 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:06,260 skeptics in the Jeep skeptics in the jib 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:09,110 what a fantastic day it was completely 18 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:11,090 worn out by the end of it and then I had 19 00:01:15,789 --> 00:01:12,650 to sit on a plane for 14 hours coming 20 00:01:17,590 --> 00:01:15,799 home skeptical adventures skeptics in 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:17,600 the Jeep with myself and Brian Dunning 22 00:01:22,330 --> 00:01:20,090 and a gaggle of skeptics coming up at 23 00:01:24,819 --> 00:01:22,340 the top of the show after that it's 24 00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:24,829 Maynard's spooky action spooky pub 25 00:01:30,580 --> 00:01:27,640 action may not has a brief chat to a 26 00:01:32,289 --> 00:01:30,590 skeptical accountant jeff mcdonald who 27 00:01:36,190 --> 00:01:32,299 spoke at our recent skeptics and above 28 00:01:38,139 --> 00:01:36,200 here in sydney about being a skeptical 29 00:01:40,209 --> 00:01:38,149 accountant what to look out for few 30 00:01:42,669 --> 00:01:40,219 little tips there and after that it's 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:42,679 back to the hot tub yet again a think 32 00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:45,890 tank in the hot tub or the hot tub of 33 00:01:52,029 --> 00:01:48,920 truth is we call it with a another fine 34 00:01:54,249 --> 00:01:52,039 group of skeptical friends enjoying the 35 00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:54,259 hot tub ins talking about skeptical 36 00:02:00,669 --> 00:01:57,140 issues congratulations to President 37 00:02:02,889 --> 00:02:00,679 Barack Obama for being re-elected good 38 00:02:05,529 --> 00:02:02,899 news good news for him good news for the 39 00:02:08,710 --> 00:02:05,539 Democratic Party commiserations to Mitt 40 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:08,720 Romney and the Republicans well you know 41 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:10,910 when your second you always try harder 42 00:02:15,460 --> 00:02:13,370 next time although having Mitt Romney 43 00:02:18,850 --> 00:02:15,470 run for president did make me revisit a 44 00:02:21,850 --> 00:02:18,860 lot of information online about the true 45 00:02:23,740 --> 00:02:21,860 beliefs of Mormons now normally we steer 46 00:02:25,750 --> 00:02:23,750 clear of religion on the skeptic zone as 47 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:25,760 you know it's we leave that for other 48 00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:28,530 people to discuss but boy 49 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:33,150 some of the beliefs of moment sir well 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:36,000 might take the cake now thank you to 51 00:02:40,220 --> 00:02:38,130 those people who have been inquiring how 52 00:02:42,620 --> 00:02:40,230 my documentaries come along the 53 00:02:45,170 --> 00:02:42,630 vaccination chronicles and remember it 54 00:02:46,790 --> 00:02:45,180 was due to listeners like you who 55 00:02:48,650 --> 00:02:46,800 chipped in to help me buy some new 56 00:02:49,970 --> 00:02:48,660 software to make this documentary it's 57 00:02:52,430 --> 00:02:49,980 coming along really well it's about 58 00:02:55,790 --> 00:02:52,440 fifty percent done now I think I've got 59 00:02:57,410 --> 00:02:55,800 another interview with a somebody to 60 00:03:00,260 --> 00:02:57,420 speak about their personal experiences 61 00:03:03,020 --> 00:03:00,270 with polio in a couple of days a matter 62 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:03,030 of fact well I hoped to have had the 63 00:03:07,580 --> 00:03:05,910 documentary ready by the Australian 64 00:03:09,470 --> 00:03:07,590 skeptics national convention at the end 65 00:03:12,380 --> 00:03:09,480 of this month it's a bit touch-and-go 66 00:03:14,350 --> 00:03:12,390 but it will be up before long I think 67 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:14,360 but it's coming along very nicely and 68 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:16,350 speaking of the convention my good 69 00:03:20,210 --> 00:03:17,850 friends in Melbourne the Victorian 70 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:20,220 skeptics have advised me that there 71 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:22,470 there are still some tickets left I 72 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:24,390 think they may have even released some 73 00:03:29,750 --> 00:03:26,730 reserve tickets for the convention James 74 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:29,760 Randi DJ Grothe rebecca watson what a 75 00:03:34,130 --> 00:03:32,010 great opportunity for you autograph 76 00:03:36,949 --> 00:03:34,140 hounds out there Wow get them all at 77 00:03:39,729 --> 00:03:36,959 once highlight of the convention is the 78 00:03:43,819 --> 00:03:39,739 fundraising dinner on the Thursday night 79 00:03:49,310 --> 00:03:43,829 check out the website WWV skeptics 80 00:03:51,289 --> 00:03:49,320 wordpress com or WH skeptics com au for 81 00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:51,299 more information and to snap up those 82 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:54,180 last tickets for the convention I wonder 83 00:03:57,860 --> 00:03:55,650 what it is about a storm that brings out 84 00:04:00,770 --> 00:03:57,870 the birds anyway there they're going 85 00:04:02,030 --> 00:04:00,780 manner there in the trees hmm I think 86 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:02,040 I'll go out and join them for a little 87 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:04,170 while I'm gonna grab a cool drink of 88 00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:06,570 water on this hot steamy day go out and 89 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:09,120 commune with the birds yeah while you 90 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:35,230 skeptical adventure skeptics in the Jeep 91 00:04:39,610 --> 00:04:37,010 and we are in the Jeep I'm with Brian 92 00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:39,620 Dunning cruising down some highway or 93 00:04:43,090 --> 00:04:41,300 other in Southern California where are 94 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:43,100 we right now we are cruising down the 95 00:04:49,779 --> 00:04:46,210 five freeway the Golden State Highway 96 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:49,789 we're actually just just in Camp 97 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:53,690 Pendleton the US Marine base on the 98 00:04:59,439 --> 00:04:56,330 California coast we are just about to 99 00:05:02,860 --> 00:04:59,449 turn inland to go to Escondido and then 100 00:05:05,860 --> 00:05:02,870 to Julian and then to anza borrego State 101 00:05:09,189 --> 00:05:05,870 Park and our destination are some famous 102 00:05:11,950 --> 00:05:09,199 mud caves these are a set of mud caves 103 00:05:14,230 --> 00:05:11,960 called Arroyo tapi Otto which is the 104 00:05:17,290 --> 00:05:14,240 name of the canyon that they're in the 105 00:05:20,409 --> 00:05:17,300 area is all made of badlands just sort 106 00:05:22,810 --> 00:05:20,419 of this rotten soil that has been eroded 107 00:05:26,290 --> 00:05:22,820 down into these canyons and in many 108 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:26,300 places the water sinks directly down 109 00:05:30,790 --> 00:05:28,370 into the soil and makes underground 110 00:05:33,159 --> 00:05:30,800 rivers below the floor of each little 111 00:05:35,350 --> 00:05:33,169 side sub Canyon where it carves out 112 00:05:38,830 --> 00:05:35,360 these tunnels literally underground 113 00:05:41,230 --> 00:05:38,840 rivers they are windy just in the way 114 00:05:43,150 --> 00:05:41,240 that any River is it's really neat is 115 00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:43,160 that it got these flat sidewalk type 116 00:05:47,290 --> 00:05:45,110 floors in them so you can walk down them 117 00:05:49,689 --> 00:05:47,300 very comfortably all you need is a 118 00:05:51,159 --> 00:05:49,699 flashlight I'm really looking forward to 119 00:05:52,810 --> 00:05:51,169 this and it's sort of like this whole 120 00:05:54,310 --> 00:05:52,820 day has been billed as a skeptical 121 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:54,320 venture you put it on facebook as 122 00:05:59,260 --> 00:05:56,330 skeptics in the Jeep and we've got what 123 00:06:01,450 --> 00:05:59,270 15 15 people who are sort of in various 124 00:06:03,339 --> 00:06:01,460 stages along the freeway we're all going 125 00:06:04,450 --> 00:06:03,349 to meet up and explore these mud caves I 126 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:04,460 think we're going to end up with about 127 00:06:11,110 --> 00:06:07,930 20 people there and about six or seven 128 00:06:13,210 --> 00:06:11,120 various jeeps and off-road type vehicles 129 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:13,220 should be a pretty good crowd I really 130 00:06:15,559 --> 00:06:14,449 appreciate the effort you've put into 131 00:06:18,169 --> 00:06:15,569 this and as 132 00:06:19,820 --> 00:06:18,179 what things i love about skepticism is 133 00:06:22,879 --> 00:06:19,830 the social aspect this is a great 134 00:06:24,619 --> 00:06:22,889 opportunity i think yeah it's a there's 135 00:06:26,779 --> 00:06:24,629 a whole different crowd of people who 136 00:06:29,299 --> 00:06:26,789 come out for these desert adventures 137 00:06:31,399 --> 00:06:29,309 that we do then who go to the pub nights 138 00:06:33,529 --> 00:06:31,409 or even to the conferences so it's a 139 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:33,539 it's another great way to do outreach to 140 00:06:43,489 --> 00:06:35,580 the community just finding another genre 141 00:06:45,730 --> 00:06:43,499 of activity on words so Brian they're 142 00:06:48,949 --> 00:06:45,740 actually in one of these fantastic caves 143 00:06:50,749 --> 00:06:48,959 isn't this something else it's it's 144 00:06:54,559 --> 00:06:50,759 going caving with a comfortable flat 145 00:06:57,739 --> 00:06:54,569 sidewalk yeah it's nice and cool is an 146 00:06:59,659 --> 00:06:57,749 analyst hot desert days like mud the 147 00:07:01,459 --> 00:06:59,669 dried mud isn't right but every way we 148 00:07:04,459 --> 00:07:01,469 look yeah the walls are crumbling easy 149 00:07:06,859 --> 00:07:04,469 to happen what's um you know supposedly 150 00:07:09,679 --> 00:07:06,869 it's carved by underground rivers but 151 00:07:11,420 --> 00:07:09,689 I've been coming here for 15 years and 152 00:07:12,529 --> 00:07:11,430 have never seen a change in the 153 00:07:15,139 --> 00:07:12,539 slightest and I've never seen any 154 00:07:16,999 --> 00:07:15,149 moisture inside other than some of these 155 00:07:18,619 --> 00:07:17,009 governors it'll look a little bit looks 156 00:07:21,079 --> 00:07:18,629 like there's a channel yeah was once 157 00:07:26,629 --> 00:07:21,089 they never say whoa are we talking about 158 00:07:28,459 --> 00:07:26,639 any thousands of years yeah well six six 159 00:07:30,859 --> 00:07:28,469 thousand I mean is there seven at the 160 00:07:32,959 --> 00:07:30,869 max it's quite comfortable there's a max 161 00:07:34,909 --> 00:07:32,969 right oops yeah we are just ran into a 162 00:07:36,499 --> 00:07:34,919 wall but we can make our way around this 163 00:07:40,659 --> 00:07:36,509 corner and it's almost like it was 164 00:07:42,589 --> 00:07:40,669 designed for people to come in here 165 00:07:44,299 --> 00:07:42,599 absolutely isn't it something would it 166 00:07:45,859 --> 00:07:44,309 be good to do a recording in here I mean 167 00:07:48,769 --> 00:07:45,869 the acoustics are amazing you're 168 00:07:50,659 --> 00:07:48,779 listening to sceptile no no no from step 169 00:07:52,579 --> 00:07:50,669 Floyd dr. toward that new he staggered 170 00:07:57,350 --> 00:07:52,589 you know it seems only four seconds long 171 00:07:58,489 --> 00:07:57,360 so no reason recorded what's the sounds 172 00:08:00,069 --> 00:07:58,499 work because my voice is always a little 173 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:00,079 different you also if i can i really 174 00:08:05,149 --> 00:08:03,449 appreciate the they used to lay your 175 00:08:06,969 --> 00:08:05,159 head lamp which i have at the moment as 176 00:08:11,089 --> 00:08:06,979 we make our way around this corner here 177 00:08:13,999 --> 00:08:11,099 and it's the sort of a very gray sort of 178 00:08:15,949 --> 00:08:14,009 base sort of dust sort of mud colors and 179 00:08:17,659 --> 00:08:15,959 probably that's that's quite the apt 180 00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:17,669 description yet oh now it's getting a 181 00:08:21,799 --> 00:08:19,409 bit narrow as we make it with me it's 182 00:08:23,659 --> 00:08:21,809 just beautiful I really appreciate 183 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:23,669 coming out with on skeptical adventures 184 00:08:29,610 --> 00:08:27,430 cuz i get them coming painting 185 00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:29,620 yeah this is just such a unique kind of 186 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:33,760 game it really is wow it's like 187 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:35,680 meandering it's like twisting and 188 00:08:39,890 --> 00:08:37,090 turning and twisting and turning just 189 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:39,900 like a river yup just like the river and 190 00:08:46,740 --> 00:08:44,710 it's about what 10 feet up to the boy in 191 00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:46,750 most places all the way up roots roots 192 00:08:56,100 --> 00:08:48,990 yeah yeah coming down from the ceiling 193 00:08:57,900 --> 00:08:56,110 that's fascinating okay onwards halfway 194 00:09:00,930 --> 00:08:57,910 through our day and I'm chatting to 195 00:09:03,930 --> 00:09:00,940 Andrew Dunning hello Andrew hello where 196 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:03,940 are we we're in the plunge pool cave of 197 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:05,770 the arroyo toffee auto mud caves in 198 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:07,180 anza-borrego desert state park 199 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:11,290 california can you be more precise no it 200 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:13,210 make room it's a big wet it's a 201 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:14,980 reasonably sized cave isn't it there's a 202 00:09:18,990 --> 00:09:16,450 bit of natural light coming in from the 203 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:19,000 top here with about 20 people on this 204 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:21,310 great Jeep adventure but you you've been 205 00:09:28,110 --> 00:09:23,790 to these caves many times Einstein Dean 206 00:09:30,810 --> 00:09:28,120 so many of back in the 1970s I believe a 207 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:30,820 man named Dwight Kerry was doing his 208 00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:34,510 thesis in geology for UCLA and he 209 00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:37,000 researched thoroughly and explored much 210 00:09:42,330 --> 00:09:39,460 of this Canyon and named most of the 211 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:42,340 caves mm-hmm so then there's a one of 212 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:43,750 the caves which we're going to visit 213 00:09:47,310 --> 00:09:45,580 later today is named after him it's 214 00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:47,320 called carries big bud cave it's the 215 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:51,100 largest cave in the area cool well I've 216 00:09:55,380 --> 00:09:53,140 never had lunch in a cave before Brian 217 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:55,390 this is a first for me I'm Leslie this 218 00:09:58,500 --> 00:09:57,130 is a great spot fact every time you come 219 00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:58,510 here if there's anyone else in this 220 00:10:03,750 --> 00:10:00,640 Canyon they're always eating lunch in 221 00:10:05,070 --> 00:10:03,760 this cave so you come here with a small 222 00:10:06,390 --> 00:10:05,080 group of friends you come in here then 223 00:10:09,180 --> 00:10:06,400 you find a larger group of friends 224 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:09,190 already taking it up you know of course 225 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:11,050 the only alternative is the noon go eat 226 00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:13,390 outside in the heat no this is like an 227 00:10:18,210 --> 00:10:15,520 air conditioned lounge in here although 228 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:18,220 we are sitting on the mud floor I'll 229 00:10:28,570 --> 00:10:26,830 so Brian Dungey is a streaking ahead of 230 00:10:30,510 --> 00:10:28,580 me here in this new cave we're in what's 231 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:30,520 this one called Brian this is called 232 00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:33,740 carries big bud cave well it's big and 233 00:10:38,050 --> 00:10:36,320 it's muddy I'll give it that and they 234 00:10:40,090 --> 00:10:38,060 spend what we are seeing spiders wow 235 00:10:43,390 --> 00:10:40,100 that's a big one this is fighter look at 236 00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:43,400 that I spotted the first wildlife Wow is 237 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:45,560 it out there it is it's like a tiny 238 00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:47,930 daddy long legs with short legs oh no I 239 00:10:54,610 --> 00:10:50,240 think it's a different job what if it's 240 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:54,620 blind I wouldn't need idea maybe all 241 00:10:59,400 --> 00:10:56,260 right go around this corner here a 242 00:11:02,890 --> 00:10:59,410 narrow channel what have we found 243 00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:02,900 another spider where's that right there 244 00:11:07,870 --> 00:11:06,560 Oh anywhere just like the other one what 245 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:07,880 can you tell us about the native 246 00:11:14,260 --> 00:11:10,850 wildlife here Brian oh damn thing haha 247 00:11:16,180 --> 00:11:14,270 it lives here holy seen this miss 248 00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:16,190 spider's I wonder what the prey on the 249 00:11:21,250 --> 00:11:19,550 spot like that so hold on so Rick you're 250 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:21,260 throwing a skeptic see you end up in 251 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:24,110 this godforsaken cave yeah we're quite 252 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:25,490 poop that was quite a long walk through 253 00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:27,770 this and with a nice walk it was really 254 00:11:31,060 --> 00:11:29,660 enjoyable but it's a it's a lot more of 255 00:11:33,010 --> 00:11:31,070 a workout than I ever thought it would 256 00:11:35,530 --> 00:11:33,020 be yeah well you gotta tuck and gotta 257 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:35,540 Bend and yeah involved but I got a nice 258 00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:38,570 nice glisten going Richard I'd end you 259 00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:40,160 do I show we just had a little cable 260 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:44,600 okay then be okay yeah okay so disaster 261 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:49,610 averted yeah I just have it one of the 262 00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:51,770 joys of caving isn't that right mr. 263 00:12:00,730 --> 00:11:54,620 prices body yeah did you guys see the 264 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:00,740 spiders like how I sell of it that way 265 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:03,290 you know there's a sort of a plan to go 266 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:04,910 up to death valley of some stone just 267 00:12:07,690 --> 00:12:06,410 skeptical trip to death oh that me bro 268 00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:07,700 don't let me do that yeah we should do 269 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:13,160 that yeah yeah yeah one yeah it's a 270 00:12:17,230 --> 00:12:15,710 wonderful place oh so Brian this is one 271 00:12:19,270 --> 00:12:17,240 of your favorite places to come to these 272 00:12:22,180 --> 00:12:19,280 kg i love these games yeah coming here a 273 00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:22,190 long time who hasn't been heavy for come 274 00:12:26,890 --> 00:12:23,960 for me hey 275 00:12:31,150 --> 00:12:26,900 most people wow that's fantastic so it's 276 00:12:33,460 --> 00:12:31,160 really a wonderful day out oh yeah this 277 00:12:35,830 --> 00:12:33,470 one is a less walkable that I remember 278 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:35,840 this is not walkable than the very first 279 00:12:40,630 --> 00:12:38,810 one I think this is my favorite those 280 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:40,640 big holes in the ceiling I really didn't 281 00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:42,530 find you just like be able to climb 282 00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:47,180 around well I'm well it's the last one 283 00:12:51,460 --> 00:12:49,070 we're going to do is murcielago which is 284 00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:51,470 a walk up a canyon probably what Andrew 285 00:12:58,570 --> 00:12:56,240 half-mile Andrew it's a long hot walk to 286 00:13:00,910 --> 00:12:58,580 get up the canyon and the cave is just 287 00:13:03,250 --> 00:13:00,920 it's a jungle gym the entrance is super 288 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:03,260 narrow and you think you laughing you 289 00:13:06,670 --> 00:13:04,490 say that's not even a cave are you 290 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:06,680 kidding me it's the best you get inside 291 00:13:10,390 --> 00:13:08,570 it's basically a jungle gym it's not 292 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:10,400 very long it's maybe a hundred feet Oh 293 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:13,610 into end and it's got the straight 294 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:15,890 section at the end which is kind of cool 295 00:13:20,650 --> 00:13:18,290 about 20 feet straight as an arrow is 296 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:20,660 this completely it's like being inside 297 00:13:25,660 --> 00:13:24,050 the pyramids really high narrow quarter 298 00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:25,670 I think of breathing more dust and 299 00:13:37,790 --> 00:13:35,660 so last week almost back home from a 300 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:37,800 wonderful day in the mud caves but I'm 301 00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:40,290 the Brian and must tell you I'm feeling 302 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:42,360 my age I'm pretty bruised and battered 303 00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,450 and sword but it was well worth it it 304 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:48,480 was a lot of fun like you I'm feeling it 305 00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,690 my my collateral damage was barking my 306 00:13:57,410 --> 00:13:53,760 head a bunch of times and scraping the 307 00:13:59,330 --> 00:13:57,420 top of it off other than that an 308 00:14:01,130 --> 00:13:59,340 inability to walk because my legs are 309 00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:01,140 sore but it was it was a blast it was a 310 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:03,540 lot of fun it was a lot of fun and not 311 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:05,010 thank you very much for putting it 312 00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:07,110 together was labeled as skeptics of the 313 00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:08,940 Jeep and we had a good mixture of 314 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:11,880 skeptics there but we had it it could 315 00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:13,290 have been anything really it was just a 316 00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:15,780 good fun day out yeah you know often we 317 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:18,600 we try to mix up riding in the cars more 318 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:21,570 people you know we did each stop people 319 00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:23,010 with trade seats and everything and 320 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:24,900 there's we didn't do that this time now 321 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:26,010 I wouldn't kind of stayed in their own 322 00:14:30,980 --> 00:14:28,170 card so there wasn't as much socializing 323 00:14:32,830 --> 00:14:30,990 as we often get we look forward to the 324 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:32,840 next skeptics in the Jeep to 325 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:35,970 destinations unknown but for now I've 326 00:14:39,770 --> 00:14:38,370 got a 14-hour plane flight ahead of me 327 00:14:41,690 --> 00:14:39,780 and I'm going to be sleeping every hour 328 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:41,700 of that pool he fell this I think I'm 329 00:14:59,790 --> 00:14:43,560 i'm going to be sleeping at the same 330 00:15:05,950 --> 00:15:03,130 ein grosses hello an ally Dawson to her 331 00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:05,960 that the skeptics on podcasts roasted 332 00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:07,550 here this is alvin Deutschland and in 333 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:09,620 skeptic a fab and gift the vital 334 00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:12,140 information newborns on the skeptic a 335 00:15:21,940 --> 00:15:16,670 magazine reserved v.v.v point gavey oop 336 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:21,950 a punk talk hv dejala vvv pont TV rupee 337 00:15:36,649 --> 00:15:24,530 pondhawk hold on to the officer and 338 00:15:44,819 --> 00:15:41,189 here's my not spooky action at a 339 00:15:48,699 --> 00:15:47,230 but we're here in the soundproof booth 340 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:48,709 that is part of the skeptics in the pub 341 00:15:51,669 --> 00:15:50,360 it's a little stairway here say probably 342 00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:51,679 going to hear people going backwards and 343 00:15:55,059 --> 00:15:53,329 forwards backwards and forwards looking 344 00:15:56,919 --> 00:15:55,069 for financial advice from our guest 345 00:15:59,559 --> 00:15:56,929 tonight skeptics to the pub well what 346 00:16:01,989 --> 00:15:59,569 are you sir one are you who are you Jeff 347 00:16:03,699 --> 00:16:01,999 McDonald's my name I'm a barrister I'm 348 00:16:06,129 --> 00:16:03,709 an accountant I'm a liquidator I'm a 349 00:16:08,379 --> 00:16:06,139 trustee in bankruptcy and generally good 350 00:16:10,329 --> 00:16:08,389 like wow and of course everyone's going 351 00:16:12,009 --> 00:16:10,339 what's this got to do skepticism why you 352 00:16:13,449 --> 00:16:12,019 addressing skeptics in the pub we don't 353 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:13,459 normally say many accountants up their 354 00:16:17,619 --> 00:16:15,670 auditors if their comment because 355 00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:17,629 because it's numbers it's either black 356 00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:20,480 or white so people think to a degree to 357 00:16:25,929 --> 00:16:23,569 agree one of the subjects that I'd spoke 358 00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:25,939 about was the auditing standards that 359 00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,790 require auditors to be skeptical it's 360 00:16:32,319 --> 00:16:30,800 actually part of their obligations and 361 00:16:35,139 --> 00:16:32,329 it's part of what the australian 362 00:16:37,569 --> 00:16:35,149 securities commission expects of 363 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:37,579 auditors and that is to be skeptical and 364 00:16:40,449 --> 00:16:39,110 how do they express that how do they ask 365 00:16:42,549 --> 00:16:40,459 for you to be skeptical in an inner 366 00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:42,559 phrase it's part of the actual 367 00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:44,360 obligations the auditing standards and 368 00:16:50,169 --> 00:16:47,480 the in the requirement so it's a policy 369 00:16:51,929 --> 00:16:50,179 or practice statement to covered by 370 00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:51,939 legislation it's it's quite a tough 371 00:16:57,789 --> 00:16:55,790 legal in position on auditors you said 372 00:17:00,280 --> 00:16:57,799 the next big target for scamsters has 373 00:17:01,539 --> 00:17:00,290 got to be superannuation society it's a 374 00:17:02,590 --> 00:17:01,549 superannuation organization to in 375 00:17:04,419 --> 00:17:02,600 Australia cuz they are the people who 376 00:17:06,189 --> 00:17:04,429 have a lot of money and will have a lot 377 00:17:08,019 --> 00:17:06,199 of money from people's contributions in 378 00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:08,029 the near future how would you target 379 00:17:11,010 --> 00:17:09,529 them you'd say I've got a twenty percent 380 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:11,020 investment or something like that 381 00:17:18,990 --> 00:17:15,130 because the large organizations are 382 00:17:22,389 --> 00:17:19,000 corporate they've got their their teams 383 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:22,399 they are going to be less susceptible to 384 00:17:28,779 --> 00:17:25,610 any scam in fact that would be a Google 385 00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:28,789 if you have a good idea there would be a 386 00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:31,039 good organization to approach that's 387 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:32,809 only part of the sector there is the 388 00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:34,610 mums and dads self-managed super funds 389 00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:37,640 that's the other significant component 390 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:39,860 where there is millions and millions of 391 00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:41,330 dollars already in those funds and 392 00:17:46,570 --> 00:17:42,950 they'll be added they added every year 393 00:17:48,370 --> 00:17:46,580 it's not it's not next year story its 394 00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:48,380 last year story this year and next year 395 00:17:53,019 --> 00:17:51,230 that that every year nine percent or 396 00:17:55,779 --> 00:17:53,029 it's going to move up to twelve percent 397 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:55,789 but a big percentage of all of the 398 00:17:59,060 --> 00:17:56,640 staffs money and 399 00:18:01,520 --> 00:17:59,070 including the proprietor has to be 400 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:01,530 tucked away for the future and it's 401 00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:08,750 just have some people were walking 402 00:18:12,860 --> 00:18:10,200 through our studio here it's a part of 403 00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:12,870 the ambience we get now that tip now at 404 00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:14,460 the last question as a skeptical 405 00:18:18,980 --> 00:18:17,100 investor you said ask questions and look 406 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:18,990 for inconsistencies what it'd be the 407 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:21,210 three best questions you should ask that 408 00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:23,610 we're really nail down an investment for 409 00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:25,110 someone is a little bit naive you can 410 00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:27,780 really punch it in there okay that is a 411 00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,320 very difficult question actually the the 412 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:33,360 types of investments will will vary so 413 00:18:37,370 --> 00:18:35,430 at the moment it's actually you're going 414 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:37,380 to see something quite peculiar coming 415 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:39,570 up there's a big [\h__\h] case running at 416 00:18:43,910 --> 00:18:41,910 the moment about the forestry 417 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:43,920 investments and I think its 30,000 418 00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:45,300 investors so there's a large number of 419 00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:47,480 people it's in the things we tour in the 420 00:18:52,550 --> 00:18:49,500 federal court of supreme but it's big 421 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:52,560 bucks big big bucks and the bank's 422 00:18:58,550 --> 00:18:56,610 funded people into investing in these 423 00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,560 forestry screams and they all went 424 00:19:03,650 --> 00:19:01,280 worked they all busted and people owe 425 00:19:04,910 --> 00:19:03,660 money to the banks and the band people 426 00:19:06,770 --> 00:19:04,920 saying i don't want to pay you back i 427 00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:06,780 didn't get what i thought i was going to 428 00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:08,220 get and the banks of said well we didn't 429 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:11,150 promise anything great southern in it 430 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:14,610 promised it and and is it so that so so 431 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:15,810 who should have done the due diligence 432 00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:17,730 here but is that what the courts trying 433 00:19:21,470 --> 00:19:19,500 to work out it so that that's part of it 434 00:19:22,790 --> 00:19:21,480 but what what the what the the banks are 435 00:19:25,010 --> 00:19:22,800 saying is what we weren't involved but 436 00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:25,020 when you have a look at the paperwork 437 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:27,780 given to these people the argument is 438 00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:30,810 now swung around and the people are 439 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:33,660 saying all of these acik rules about 440 00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:35,490 giving us massive amounts of information 441 00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:37,620 on the prospectus and all this all these 442 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:40,350 documents they're too confusing you're 443 00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:41,730 giving us too much information as he 444 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:44,820 gets your fault acik you've told these 445 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:46,530 companies to give us so much information 446 00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:48,210 that we've all got confused and we 447 00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:49,620 didn't know what the hell we're doing so 448 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:52,470 it's the company's fault for complying 449 00:19:55,940 --> 00:19:54,510 with Assocation to give us so much 450 00:19:58,610 --> 00:19:55,950 information this is an argument for 451 00:19:59,570 --> 00:19:58,620 deregulation is it swung around as going 452 00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:59,580 backwards and i could see these 453 00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:00,840 companies turn around suing a secure 454 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:03,180 zone we complied with your obligation i 455 00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:04,740 have so much rubbish in these reports 456 00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,840 that their people can't understand the 457 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:08,720 damn things and they're kind of suing or 458 00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:10,230 defending our 459 00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:11,580 is on the basis that it was all too 460 00:20:15,470 --> 00:20:13,740 confusing so stay tuned for that one 461 00:20:16,970 --> 00:20:15,480 well I could see that being a really 462 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:16,980 interesting arguing getting asked Jordan 463 00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:18,570 to it but but look there and there's the 464 00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:21,510 Australian Securities and Investments 465 00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,020 Commission ASIC yeah but those types of 466 00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,880 investments in listing public companies 467 00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:28,320 there they are highly regulated as I 468 00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:32,160 just gave an example and there are this 469 00:20:34,730 --> 00:20:33,510 prospectus is there's there's lots of 470 00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,740 pieces of paper look if you want to take 471 00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:36,960 out an insurance policy on you know you 472 00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,700 have your home you've got to get a 473 00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:40,320 product disclosure just a bee gotta get 474 00:20:44,299 --> 00:20:42,059 all this bloody rubbish and and people 475 00:20:46,130 --> 00:20:44,309 don't read it it's there to be read but 476 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:46,140 people don't read it but anyway if 477 00:20:48,409 --> 00:20:47,250 you're looking at those sorts of 478 00:20:51,409 --> 00:20:48,419 investments there's lots of paperwork 479 00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:51,419 all I can suggest is you I suppose you 480 00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:53,460 use a some basic rules if I mean if it 481 00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:55,500 sounds too good and too good to be true 482 00:20:59,539 --> 00:20:58,020 that that's that's a bit of it but read 483 00:21:02,990 --> 00:20:59,549 the document although as I just said 484 00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:03,000 it's too confusing yeah just some some 485 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:04,799 guy feel that's the old thing is that 486 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:07,530 like greed Trump's common sense doesn't 487 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:09,090 it and that's when people get in trouble 488 00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:11,370 to it very much and that's the defense 489 00:21:14,150 --> 00:21:12,900 of these banks is only saying look 490 00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:14,160 please peel winning these does they got 491 00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:16,049 their tax deduction and that's what they 492 00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:17,640 were driven by and you know they're now 493 00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:18,780 complaining because it didn't work out 494 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:21,030 that's not our fault but and that's a 495 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:23,370 great thing although greed look as you 496 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:24,510 said the greed but peer group pressure 497 00:21:30,110 --> 00:21:26,010 is another thing and I think that's a 498 00:21:31,820 --> 00:21:30,120 that's a underrated influence because it 499 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:31,830 certainly how they prey on the pensioner 500 00:21:36,650 --> 00:21:34,530 market sometimes retirees oh definitely 501 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:36,660 but it may be because because they'll go 502 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:38,970 and address a group of them at once yeah 503 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:42,410 that's that's certainly pegre pressure 504 00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:44,730 amongst physically in front of people 505 00:21:48,730 --> 00:21:46,350 but I'm also thinking the pee grip 506 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:48,740 pressure of saying people well are you 507 00:21:55,180 --> 00:21:51,330 getting fifteen percent like everyone 508 00:21:57,140 --> 00:21:55,190 else the unnamed unclassified identified 509 00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:57,150 others who are making money and of 510 00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:00,299 course when times were good people were 511 00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:02,910 making twelve percent or so they're 512 00:22:06,380 --> 00:22:05,040 getting good returns so of course for 513 00:22:08,299 --> 00:22:06,390 some of us all are you getting you 514 00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:08,309 getting an average return of twelve 515 00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:09,780 percent oh yeah I can get you good a 516 00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:11,100 good which are you missing out on this 517 00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:12,360 people getting on the bandwagon and 518 00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:14,070 without necessarily having everyone 519 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:16,020 together and everyone have to turn to 520 00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:17,370 each other and look at each other it's 521 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:20,100 just this unknown investor that you know 522 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:21,450 they're getting this great returns don't 523 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:23,690 you miss out that's not happening there 524 00:22:26,379 --> 00:22:25,250 any great returns at the moment so 525 00:22:27,310 --> 00:22:26,389 people aren't feeling like they're 526 00:22:29,259 --> 00:22:27,320 missing out because there aren't any 527 00:22:30,879 --> 00:22:29,269 around it ever knows that so that but 528 00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:30,889 that's kind of steadied things at the 529 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:32,750 moment but certainly to the extent that 530 00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:34,610 there's a private placement an 531 00:22:38,139 --> 00:22:35,990 opportunity to invest in a private 532 00:22:40,509 --> 00:22:38,149 business that's where the comment i made 533 00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:40,519 today is ask the questions but look for 534 00:22:45,009 --> 00:22:43,340 consistency in the answers and and i 535 00:22:46,749 --> 00:22:45,019 gave it a real basic one was about i 536 00:22:48,730 --> 00:22:46,759 think i said to you before do you have 537 00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,740 some financial statements do you have 538 00:22:51,970 --> 00:22:50,720 some figures and when is well they're 539 00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:51,980 not ready yet you think well okay 540 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:54,080 there's there's the first thing well how 541 00:22:58,330 --> 00:22:55,730 could anyone possibly seek to raise 542 00:23:00,490 --> 00:22:58,340 money and not have some numbers so 543 00:23:02,110 --> 00:23:00,500 there's your starting there's you've got 544 00:23:03,730 --> 00:23:02,120 to automatically so milord a minute 545 00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:03,740 something's wrong and you can just test 546 00:23:07,749 --> 00:23:06,289 them and the pretty basic questions have 547 00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:07,759 you got a little desk lamp and one of 548 00:23:11,919 --> 00:23:10,340 those special visors that they wear for 549 00:23:13,539 --> 00:23:11,929 accounts you know that we see in the old 550 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:13,549 movies have you got the roll up sleeves 551 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:15,289 so I like in the monty python movie the 552 00:23:19,299 --> 00:23:18,049 on the captain sees it was a little boy 553 00:23:20,740 --> 00:23:19,309 my end up sailing off the end of the 554 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,750 world because they didn't do their due 555 00:23:24,490 --> 00:23:23,120 diligence that's it that's it now I must 556 00:23:26,049 --> 00:23:24,500 say I haven't seen many of that I do 557 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:26,059 have my decimal accuracy you need a bit 558 00:23:30,129 --> 00:23:28,610 of light but now I haven't seen they 559 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:30,139 haven't seen those things for a while 560 00:23:33,220 --> 00:23:31,850 haven't seen those things thanks for 561 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:33,230 being our special guest tonight Jeff the 562 00:23:56,130 --> 00:23:52,980 the skeptic magazine the journal from 563 00:23:58,350 --> 00:23:56,140 Australian skeptics subscribe online to 564 00:24:03,630 --> 00:23:58,360 the world's second oldest skeptical 565 00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:03,640 magazine visit w WC apx com au and click 566 00:24:10,380 --> 00:24:06,400 the publication's league you can also 567 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:10,390 find their over 30 years on back issues 568 00:24:25,740 --> 00:24:13,690 free to download the skeptic magazine 569 00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:25,750 from Australian skeptics join us now for 570 00:24:37,050 --> 00:24:35,250 and it's welcome again to the 571 00:24:40,790 --> 00:24:37,060 Californian residents of Brian Dunning 572 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:40,800 and we're in the hot tub of truth yeah 573 00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:44,110 thank you have a drink hmm my cheap can 574 00:24:47,790 --> 00:24:46,120 of bud light doesn't clink very effect 575 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:47,800 no it's what everyone else is like a 576 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:50,230 holiday beer bottle yeah so we're still 577 00:24:55,530 --> 00:24:51,970 here in the hot tub of truth as we were 578 00:24:58,290 --> 00:24:55,540 last week we haven't left dawn three 579 00:25:04,650 --> 00:24:58,300 shades of wrinkly prune my skin is 580 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,660 coming off we have the same crew as we 581 00:25:08,850 --> 00:25:06,400 did last time although lisa is actually 582 00:25:10,590 --> 00:25:08,860 left I think she'd run to get some more 583 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:10,600 wine or beer for the rest of us i'm not 584 00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:12,690 really sure what's making sure hope so 585 00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:15,700 just to remind everybody from last week 586 00:25:19,530 --> 00:25:17,080 let's introduce ourselves starting 587 00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:19,540 reducer i'm brian dunning from skeptic 588 00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:25,030 car oh my do them and hi now you're 589 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:27,460 gonna introduce you to him hi I'm Erica 590 00:25:38,730 --> 00:25:35,770 Danny haha rom academic tuck maybe one 591 00:25:40,650 --> 00:25:38,740 day I'm Rachel bluma most of you 592 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:40,660 probably remember me as a delayed in the 593 00:25:44,130 --> 00:25:42,250 Manhattan Beach middle school 8th grade 594 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:44,140 production of Guys and Dolls mm-hmm 595 00:25:49,020 --> 00:25:46,350 reaching those people are still talking 596 00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:49,030 stuff on it on YouTube what I do stuff 597 00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:52,300 on YouTube and I I write for robot 598 00:25:58,669 --> 00:25:55,710 chicken Wow hey I'm Jim Brown from 599 00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:58,679 skeptically pwned that 600 00:26:05,399 --> 00:26:01,600 yeah we're false claims get kicked in 601 00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:05,409 the nuts yes I'm John rail also from 602 00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:07,929 skeptically pwned calm the poner himself 603 00:26:14,730 --> 00:26:10,350 yeah we know that's not a false coin huh 604 00:26:21,149 --> 00:26:14,740 I'm very Chan from skeptically pawns and 605 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:21,159 also some kept exam is everybody ranking 606 00:26:25,230 --> 00:26:23,529 so it's wonderful to be back here and 607 00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:25,240 your hot tub of truth Brian Dunning 608 00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:27,340 thank you out this is what third year 609 00:26:31,169 --> 00:26:28,990 running we've done a hot tub of truth I 610 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:31,179 think it's an important tradition I 611 00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:32,529 think it's really the glue that holds 612 00:26:37,529 --> 00:26:34,000 the whole skeptical community together 613 00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:37,539 it is it isn't we raise a glass to may 614 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:39,190 not who would love to be in the hot 615 00:26:42,779 --> 00:26:40,690 topic yeah I don't know what's up with 616 00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:42,789 that slacker he was every time I invite 617 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:45,940 him to join us he ignores me May dad 618 00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:52,000 spooky action at a distance so John 619 00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:53,919 let's let's have a talk about your your 620 00:26:58,500 --> 00:26:55,960 endeavors in your videos little talk 621 00:27:02,279 --> 00:26:58,510 little talk this is how I came to know 622 00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:02,289 Rachel blue myself here he's by emailing 623 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:04,470 and harassing her to be in my video 624 00:27:09,870 --> 00:27:07,090 because oh you're the one I'm the way 625 00:27:12,769 --> 00:27:09,880 because I thought she was cool and I 626 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:12,779 wanted a cool person in my video and uh 627 00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:16,090 and the funny thing about Rachel showing 628 00:27:20,610 --> 00:27:18,460 up I don't think she knew why she was 629 00:27:22,889 --> 00:27:20,620 there we were halfway through the chute 630 00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,899 and she's like so what is this like are 631 00:27:26,669 --> 00:27:24,399 you starting a pilot is this a new 632 00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:26,679 series is what's going on I'm like what 633 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:28,960 this this could be a really terrible 634 00:27:34,019 --> 00:27:31,450 thing you just wanted we could be awful 635 00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:34,029 people I know I read the script I read 636 00:27:37,740 --> 00:27:35,620 the script and and you said that I'm 637 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:37,750 savages in it so I was like okay you're 638 00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:40,000 not gonna murder me and I called you on 639 00:27:43,379 --> 00:27:41,769 twitter already not usually exclude I 640 00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:43,389 didn't know it was a um I didn't know it 641 00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:44,860 was already a Klingon I apologize for 642 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:46,960 that oh no problem I just need your 643 00:27:52,110 --> 00:27:49,090 fully apologize shut up for my video 644 00:27:57,390 --> 00:27:55,590 that's true it's like well I'm for so 645 00:28:00,000 --> 00:27:57,400 John what's a philosophy behind your 646 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:00,010 side let's litter okay good I don't know 647 00:28:04,650 --> 00:28:01,690 about philosophy so much is a formula 648 00:28:06,270 --> 00:28:04,660 because our philosophy is of course with 649 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,280 the skeptic method we follow the 650 00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:07,840 preponderance of evidence and so those 651 00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:10,990 are the feces that we support that we 652 00:28:15,210 --> 00:28:13,270 you know project out there are the 653 00:28:17,850 --> 00:28:15,220 conclusions of better smarter people 654 00:28:23,070 --> 00:28:17,860 than ourselves what we do our formula is 655 00:28:27,870 --> 00:28:23,080 we take a genre of of BS such as ghost 656 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:27,880 hunting such as [\h__\h] oh and we do a 657 00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:30,640 sketch around that around that idea and 658 00:28:35,610 --> 00:28:32,980 then I run in kick it at the junk-- 659 00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:35,620 explain why it's all wrong and run out 660 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:37,750 of there so that's it I'm just standing 661 00:28:43,470 --> 00:28:41,770 on the shoulders of geniuses ah not 662 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:43,480 according to PZ Myers I do not think 663 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:46,090 that I am making a thesis or making 664 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:48,010 essays I am NOT constructing an 665 00:28:52,770 --> 00:28:49,930 intelligent argument I'm just doing a 666 00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:52,780 joke based on smarter people than myself 667 00:28:58,380 --> 00:28:56,260 so so pz i'm not writing a thesis how 668 00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:58,390 many of these videos have you done no 669 00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:01,360 this will be the sixth one we have 2012 670 00:29:06,570 --> 00:29:03,790 coming up which has which has it this 671 00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:06,580 video has rachel bloom herself we have 672 00:29:13,050 --> 00:29:08,950 adam center I requested five million 673 00:29:16,290 --> 00:29:13,060 dollars my own and I promised it to her 674 00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:16,300 eventually we end for nothing yes adam 675 00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:18,790 said Adam Savage we got him in it so 676 00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,600 look for that we have DJ Grothe DJ yeah 677 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:24,880 we have Jared Kaufman of the odds must 678 00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:27,090 be crazy but I get those guys I just 679 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,070 told them I a funny story with adam i 680 00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:32,080 emailed his lawyer I email this PR 681 00:29:35,910 --> 00:29:34,540 person i emailed his agent nobody would 682 00:29:37,290 --> 00:29:35,920 get back to me they were all like yeah 683 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:37,300 he's gonna pass on this blah blah I 684 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:39,370 finally found his personal email mail 685 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:41,050 address sent it to him and he's like 686 00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:44,770 sure sounds like Von D ya swing by by 687 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:46,990 San Francisco some time and I think the 688 00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:49,270 important thing is neglected to mention 689 00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:52,060 is you don't have Brian Dunning I have 690 00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:54,670 not gotten Brian done again as I've sent 691 00:29:59,150 --> 00:29:56,140 him a couple interview requests in the 692 00:30:03,440 --> 00:29:59,160 past but these hot men to get hold of I 693 00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,450 I was hanging on his schedule penny 694 00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:05,760 chanted though we do it a penny I've 695 00:30:10,970 --> 00:30:07,590 heard of it I was Rachel's a stunt 696 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:10,980 double she was she is that right really 697 00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:13,050 well one Rachel had to bounce we had to 698 00:30:15,890 --> 00:30:14,880 we had to put somebody in there and sell 699 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:15,900 but you were like those dead on the 700 00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:17,730 market I'm like I'm about a foot taller 701 00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,980 and I don't have red hair and she pushed 702 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:21,840 up her cleavage and that was it Rachel 703 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:26,610 doesn't do her own ass scenes I will do 704 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:30,330 my own well okay that was just going to 705 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:32,130 get really dirty and this might be for 706 00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:37,650 children and I must say the skeptic zone 707 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:40,230 is usually a g-rated show but you know 708 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:42,210 within those confines you're an 709 00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:44,090 eighth-grade it's time to get real I 710 00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:46,110 will learn about the birds in the beach 711 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:48,270 kid well I was getting to all our guest 712 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:49,890 stars Jen just reminded me I left out 713 00:30:58,580 --> 00:30:55,890 mr. DD yes this is all in the same video 714 00:31:01,250 --> 00:30:58,590 all in one video it's like six minutes 715 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:01,260 now we're trying to get it down shorter 716 00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:02,970 than that because it's it's kind of 717 00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:04,920 gotten out of control exactly headed out 718 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:10,440 out of good solution no um no it's it's 719 00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:11,640 kind of gotten out of hand we have a 720 00:31:15,130 --> 00:31:13,590 rough cut right now which i'm dying to 721 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:15,140 show you guys after we get a lot done 722 00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:18,210 you could just fast-forward it that's a 723 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:23,360 diet but it's like down to two minutes I 724 00:31:29,870 --> 00:31:26,880 do it you know brian i discovered that 725 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:29,880 mr. DD Brian Keith Dalton you and I were 726 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:32,010 all born in the same year does that say 727 00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:34,050 something it says that I look a hell of 728 00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:38,550 a lot better than either one hmm you 729 00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:42,080 just got pwned idea skeptically for you 730 00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:47,640 Rachel just say poon oh come on that's a 731 00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:49,980 different show good it's like if I can 732 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:52,380 owned with a pound technically you're 733 00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:53,910 not even supposed to pronounce the P but 734 00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,470 otherwise people don't don't know you're 735 00:31:59,450 --> 00:31:57,120 referring to the purposeful misspelling 736 00:32:01,010 --> 00:31:59,460 unless you do pronounce the P this is a 737 00:32:03,470 --> 00:32:01,020 huge nerd debate that happens every time 738 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:03,480 I release a video so you're not supposed 739 00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:05,310 to pronounce the P because it just means 740 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:07,830 owned but it's misspelled it's like yeah 741 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:09,510 right how do you want its cool the 742 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:11,370 subtext of all those comments is like 743 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:13,170 I'm so sad 744 00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,140 my life yeah we we spent an interesting 745 00:32:24,270 --> 00:32:19,840 afternoon with with you Erykah your dad 746 00:32:26,970 --> 00:32:24,280 and me in the in the living room just 747 00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:26,980 now watching about half of ancient 748 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:30,000 aliens debunked and you would buy 749 00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:33,370 awesome aliens debunked it's good it's 750 00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:35,830 the three-hour documentary I mr. 751 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:38,140 Christian what's his name is what Chris 752 00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:41,050 White the Christian yes yes yes but you 753 00:32:44,670 --> 00:32:42,640 know what I mean we're watching it and 754 00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:44,680 for the most part it's just like ah this 755 00:32:48,510 --> 00:32:46,720 guy's incredible he hasn't gone through 756 00:32:49,950 --> 00:32:48,520 it with a fine-tooth comb you know I 757 00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,960 heard Georgiana gets a little weird 758 00:32:54,810 --> 00:32:52,000 though there are some weird pouts in it 759 00:32:56,370 --> 00:32:54,820 but I did this a few weeks ago on the 760 00:32:58,350 --> 00:32:56,380 skeptics and don't let that stop you 761 00:33:01,260 --> 00:32:58,360 from watching it oh when it's good it's 762 00:33:03,870 --> 00:33:01,270 just me good is very good is very good 763 00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:03,880 his writing in his arguments that he 764 00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:06,280 makes no mistake yeah and and they're 765 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:08,110 very well written a funny story I just 766 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:10,570 discovered this two days ago two days 767 00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:12,730 ago is like just surfing online and it 768 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:15,310 popped up and it was on skeptic calm and 769 00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:16,510 that's where I discovered it yeah it's 770 00:33:21,510 --> 00:33:17,860 this guy who made this three-hour 771 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:21,520 documentary debunking ancient aliens 772 00:33:25,770 --> 00:33:23,770 just in his free time on his own and 773 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:25,780 it's on YouTube the whole three hours us 774 00:33:30,810 --> 00:33:29,170 but it's it's extraordinary the lengthy 775 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:30,820 skeet I mean we were just watching the 776 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:33,130 one about the ancient the art that the 777 00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:35,770 crucifixion and the flying UFOs and all 778 00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:37,510 its Australia right right and the way he 779 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:39,550 deconstructs and shows you what's really 780 00:33:43,860 --> 00:33:41,320 going on it's just he does a tremendous 781 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:43,870 amount of research because he get to the 782 00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:45,130 subjects that he did that we watched 783 00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:48,310 already crystal skulls and puma punku 784 00:33:55,530 --> 00:33:51,840 are episodes that I did on sceptile and 785 00:33:58,550 --> 00:33:55,540 I it's interesting because eighty 786 00:34:01,170 --> 00:33:58,560 percent of the research that we both did 787 00:34:03,390 --> 00:34:01,180 was the same came up with the same stuff 788 00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:03,400 but he also came up with resources that 789 00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:05,620 I never did and I put a lot of work into 790 00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:08,140 my episodes I didn't he did a very good 791 00:34:12,630 --> 00:34:10,750 job yeah you know the Miss Dunning's 792 00:34:14,490 --> 00:34:12,640 favorite part was so far well I like how 793 00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:14,500 the segments aren't like three hours 794 00:34:19,470 --> 00:34:17,440 long in themselves there they get the 795 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:19,480 job done but they're not extremely long 796 00:34:23,550 --> 00:34:21,730 they're not too short Slyke and this and 797 00:34:26,309 --> 00:34:23,560 this and this air moving on now you mean 798 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:26,319 they're not like skip toyed which is 799 00:34:30,819 --> 00:34:28,970 two minutes long and get to half the 800 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:30,829 points which is 10 minutes stretched 801 00:34:38,109 --> 00:34:34,210 into two hours got you get to the point 802 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:38,119 that's rare treatises this is the same 803 00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:39,770 Erica Dunning who was mentioned on the 804 00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:41,839 skeptics guide to the universe she's 805 00:34:47,379 --> 00:34:44,540 embarrassed Wyatt why was she on 806 00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:47,389 skeptics and she was amazing her words 807 00:34:51,609 --> 00:34:49,609 you were going with America everything 808 00:34:54,220 --> 00:34:51,619 gonna hide what's the quote what's the 809 00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,230 club no it was a fantastic quote Brian 810 00:34:57,309 --> 00:34:55,760 maybe you can you can tell our listeners 811 00:34:59,260 --> 00:34:57,319 what that wonderful quote from your 812 00:35:01,930 --> 00:34:59,270 daughter was you can do magic with 813 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:01,940 science but you can't do science with 814 00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:09,170 magic there we go that's a wonderful 815 00:35:13,569 --> 00:35:11,390 quote that's a really good I feel love 816 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:13,579 that was that was the ed sullivan 817 00:35:18,539 --> 00:35:16,010 version of Miss Dunning's Chloe oh yeah 818 00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:18,549 talk about that in the car really I 819 00:35:23,410 --> 00:35:21,230 started talking about it he ain't been 820 00:35:25,420 --> 00:35:23,420 making funny I thought we talked about 821 00:35:27,819 --> 00:35:25,430 thing my brother does a great Brian 822 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:27,829 Dunning in fact my brother did a whole 823 00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:30,890 segment on my show once about we've made 824 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:32,569 up some silly story and he called 825 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:35,930 himself Brian doughnut I'm Brian 826 00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:38,510 doughnut voted the best one I've heard 827 00:35:43,299 --> 00:35:41,390 was from captain disillusion he did it 828 00:35:46,299 --> 00:35:43,309 he did one of his videos where he 829 00:35:48,670 --> 00:35:46,309 debunks youtube videos it was the last 830 00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:48,680 one he lays right yeah yeah and he had a 831 00:35:54,579 --> 00:35:52,640 whole quote from me and and he read it 832 00:35:55,780 --> 00:35:54,589 doing an impression of me and then he 833 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:55,790 emailed that to me and said hey would 834 00:35:59,319 --> 00:35:57,290 you rather I use this or do you want to 835 00:36:01,000 --> 00:35:59,329 record it yourself I recorded it right 836 00:36:03,789 --> 00:36:01,010 said please use whichever one you want 837 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:03,799 and it was it was quite good yeah I 838 00:36:09,339 --> 00:36:07,130 thought I was not really sure the 839 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:09,349 captain so so embarrassed I actually 840 00:36:15,339 --> 00:36:13,250 sound like that so good i got audition 841 00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:15,349 impression that guy that guy is so 842 00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:17,150 vicious i am just telling everyone out 843 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:19,520 here is brilliant we know he's am he's 844 00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:22,609 the man he is oh yeah we are this close 845 00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:26,150 in our dropbox you know continuum to 846 00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:27,440 eventually be working with that guy 847 00:36:32,650 --> 00:36:29,569 across the country that's my hope any 848 00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,660 drops Lexi said yeah 2015 I'm gonna be 849 00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:34,880 working with Captain this 850 00:36:41,569 --> 00:36:38,400 video yeah that gave the man he's a good 851 00:36:43,759 --> 00:36:41,579 he's a nice bloke to i interviewed of 852 00:36:45,799 --> 00:36:43,769 toys i have and a couple of times ago I 853 00:36:48,109 --> 00:36:45,809 was on a judging panel with him for the 854 00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,119 damn for the talent show the talent show 855 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:50,640 and we had a great time oh yes I wanted 856 00:36:54,319 --> 00:36:52,410 to be in the talent show you wanted to 857 00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:54,329 be in the talent yeah what was you guys 858 00:36:58,789 --> 00:36:56,670 which I will see what's your talent good 859 00:37:00,849 --> 00:36:58,799 cause i was going to perform Jimmy 860 00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:00,859 Stewart's monologue from the end of rope 861 00:37:06,979 --> 00:37:04,079 yeah that woman you weren't gonna what 862 00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:06,989 does that look how's that a look of 863 00:37:12,049 --> 00:37:10,680 great approach better chance see ya all 864 00:37:14,029 --> 00:37:12,059 right yeah Brian you weren't gonna do 865 00:37:16,549 --> 00:37:14,039 your singing your glottal what is a 866 00:37:19,819 --> 00:37:16,559 double voice I'll go do that stupid 867 00:37:21,380 --> 00:37:19,829 throat sighs yeah alright yeah well you 868 00:37:23,539 --> 00:37:21,390 sent me a video of you doing the Tuvan 869 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:23,549 throat-singing the first time I sent you 870 00:37:27,549 --> 00:37:25,890 a video you yes yeah this is the other 871 00:37:34,179 --> 00:37:27,559 he don't want to miss my actually did 872 00:37:40,009 --> 00:37:36,739 you did you were like hey here's a 873 00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:40,019 YouTube video for you oh my god Jane 23 874 00:37:46,279 --> 00:37:43,640 came out that was probably ambien even 875 00:37:47,779 --> 00:37:46,289 this whole this whole thing started with 876 00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:47,789 us wanting to know more about your 877 00:37:53,660 --> 00:37:50,400 website skeptic okay I don't know where 878 00:37:55,669 --> 00:37:53,670 my day I would like to hear a rundown of 879 00:37:58,309 --> 00:37:55,679 all the episodes right member the first 880 00:38:00,079 --> 00:37:58,319 time I ever I the first time I met you I 881 00:38:02,059 --> 00:38:00,089 think was when you contact me about your 882 00:38:04,189 --> 00:38:02,069 bigfoot video price so the so the 883 00:38:05,929 --> 00:38:04,199 rundown is so far we have done John 884 00:38:08,419 --> 00:38:05,939 Edward our psychic one we have done 885 00:38:10,339 --> 00:38:08,429 Bigfoot are Bigfoot one we have done 886 00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:10,349 ghost hunters which was a two-parter in 887 00:38:15,319 --> 00:38:12,689 which I am so proud of that people still 888 00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:15,329 go to the video and type comments like 889 00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:17,640 fake these guys aren't for real these 890 00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:21,689 are the real deal ghost hunters I know 891 00:38:25,579 --> 00:38:23,609 that and it's like blatantly a sketch 892 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:25,589 but they still think it's a try that was 893 00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:28,890 really funny yeah after that we did our 894 00:38:34,459 --> 00:38:32,400 Chi [\h__\h] oh that's a good one I like 895 00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:34,469 yeah that's that's probably are 896 00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:36,660 technically most superior one to date 897 00:38:40,999 --> 00:38:39,390 and now we're doing 2012 the Mayan 898 00:38:43,579 --> 00:38:41,009 apocalypse which we have to finish 899 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:43,589 drinking game 4 well we don't do it yet 900 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:46,210 looks for December 23 sweet 901 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:47,650 holden know what's the whole diploma 902 00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:50,410 2012 video literally we have to do some 903 00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:52,480 special effects on it without Jen here 904 00:38:58,140 --> 00:38:55,359 is in charge up and we just need to do a 905 00:39:00,990 --> 00:38:58,150 couple quick reshoots of just some small 906 00:39:03,540 --> 00:39:01,000 stuff Richard one interesting thing 907 00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:03,550 coming up on skeptically phone I'm 908 00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:04,990 actually giving my vote away this year 909 00:39:07,859 --> 00:39:06,609 well I mean I gave it away four years 910 00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:07,869 ago but i'm giving it away again 911 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:09,940 hopefully to rachel if she's available 912 00:39:13,770 --> 00:39:11,530 yes which means that i vote twice 913 00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:13,780 because i can vote for him and then i 914 00:39:17,339 --> 00:39:15,190 can vote for myself because i don't plan 915 00:39:19,710 --> 00:39:17,349 any good what you do is you go to the 916 00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:19,720 polls and you sign in a voter assistant 917 00:39:23,730 --> 00:39:21,520 and there is no protocol there is no 918 00:39:25,950 --> 00:39:23,740 restrictions you i could sign in you as 919 00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:25,960 my voter assistant and hand you my 920 00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:29,260 ballot you know Wow also queda rorting 921 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:31,510 isn't it man I did this for years ago 922 00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:34,900 for the first Obama election and that's 923 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:36,790 actually how I got into skeptical 924 00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:38,050 filmmaking I made a little documentary 925 00:39:44,099 --> 00:39:40,720 about it Penn Jillette saw that he made 926 00:39:45,810 --> 00:39:44,109 a video about my video Wow and I was 927 00:39:49,020 --> 00:39:45,820 like wow I should make more stuff so 928 00:39:50,670 --> 00:39:49,030 that's kind of how it begins well I was 929 00:39:52,620 --> 00:39:50,680 saying I was saying there is something I 930 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:52,630 and I and I like the point that you were 931 00:39:56,609 --> 00:39:54,580 making which is like what if you can put 932 00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,619 it what was it it's like if you can you 933 00:40:00,420 --> 00:39:57,760 there's different punishment for giving 934 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:00,430 your vote away rather than oh yeah if 935 00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:02,290 you try and sell your vote if i was to 936 00:40:07,170 --> 00:40:04,270 sell my vote even you know for sure but 937 00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:07,180 it could be idea yeah world and no money 938 00:40:11,490 --> 00:40:09,190 or alcohol yeah yeah then alcohol 939 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:11,500 specifically uncle yeah looking out 940 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:13,330 looking down here you can't just go to 941 00:40:17,099 --> 00:40:15,250 some drunk guy and like give him what 942 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:17,109 i'm pretty sure i could give you weed 943 00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:20,410 for it alcohol is on the books because 944 00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:21,790 that's how they used to bribe people to 945 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:24,070 vote back in the old days yes that's the 946 00:40:27,810 --> 00:40:26,050 same situation as prostitution you can 947 00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:27,820 give it away from ya which is exactly 948 00:40:31,980 --> 00:40:29,920 what Penn Jillette said and that's what 949 00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:31,990 ice that's when I said can you give a 950 00:40:35,370 --> 00:40:33,670 vote away and we went for the pulling 951 00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:35,380 both I'm sure enough you can give a boat 952 00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:37,390 away what they call it voter assistant 953 00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:39,250 you signing a voter assistant I go into 954 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:40,750 the booth with you and I hand you my 955 00:40:45,570 --> 00:40:42,970 ballot that's it there's something 956 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:45,580 called the Condor say winner Condor say 957 00:40:49,470 --> 00:40:47,530 was a french mathematician and the 958 00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:49,480 Condor say winner of an election when 959 00:40:53,310 --> 00:40:50,950 you have more than two people running 960 00:40:55,260 --> 00:40:53,320 three or more people running is the one 961 00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:55,270 winner who would beat every other 962 00:40:59,350 --> 00:40:57,730 candidate in a head-to-head runoff they 963 00:41:01,570 --> 00:40:59,360 don't always have a condo 964 00:41:04,750 --> 00:41:01,580 say winner but if you do have a converse 965 00:41:05,830 --> 00:41:04,760 is the guy who should win now you can go 966 00:41:08,860 --> 00:41:05,840 back and look at some of the past 967 00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:08,870 historical US elections Bush versus Gore 968 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:10,790 for example where the Condor say winter 969 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:13,490 did not win and that's that's one of the 970 00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:15,530 fallibilities of this economic law if 971 00:41:21,580 --> 00:41:18,020 you have a system where people can 972 00:41:24,340 --> 00:41:21,590 simply vote for two candidates or all 973 00:41:26,770 --> 00:41:24,350 that they want you can check yes or no 974 00:41:28,510 --> 00:41:26,780 on all the candidates or you can give a 975 00:41:30,940 --> 00:41:28,520 score too every candidate like one 976 00:41:34,810 --> 00:41:30,950 through ten this is like a skip Boyd 977 00:41:36,250 --> 00:41:34,820 episode this is gunpoint up yeah so so 978 00:41:38,260 --> 00:41:36,260 in theory it's like not only pitting 979 00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:38,270 Obama vs Romney Peng Obama vers like 980 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:40,400 Roseanne Barr and pinning Obama jackets 981 00:41:44,530 --> 00:41:42,290 although and now the thing is that when 982 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:44,540 you do that if you have Joe Blow that 983 00:41:48,730 --> 00:41:46,850 we've never heard of it on the ballot we 984 00:41:50,530 --> 00:41:48,740 tend to give him kind of an equal vote 985 00:41:52,990 --> 00:41:50,540 we say well okay that guy's probably 986 00:41:54,970 --> 00:41:53,000 reasonable and if it was a ranking 987 00:41:56,620 --> 00:41:54,980 system for example 1 through 10 you 988 00:41:58,300 --> 00:41:56,630 would give him a 5 because you don't 989 00:42:01,300 --> 00:41:58,310 know anything about it and they call 990 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:01,310 that the nursery effect which is where 991 00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:03,410 candidates who don't merit a decent 992 00:42:09,730 --> 00:42:06,710 score get a decent score whereas the two 993 00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:09,740 candidates who are assuming that the 994 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:12,400 that that Romney and Obama are both 995 00:42:16,570 --> 00:42:14,690 qualified to be President they both 996 00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,580 should probably get a pretty high score 997 00:42:21,010 --> 00:42:18,560 and Joe Blow nobody should probably get 998 00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:21,020 a low score however in this system the 999 00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:23,420 average voter is going to give Joe Blow 1000 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:25,160 nobody a five and they're going to give 1001 00:42:29,050 --> 00:42:27,290 either Romney or Obama a zero or 10 1002 00:42:31,090 --> 00:42:29,060 depending on which one they like got it 1003 00:42:33,490 --> 00:42:31,100 so there's a whole lot of interesting 1004 00:42:35,770 --> 00:42:33,500 science comes down to mathematics at 1005 00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:35,780 that point yeah so Jill blow has a 1006 00:42:39,790 --> 00:42:38,000 higher chance of winning Joe Blow can 1007 00:42:45,610 --> 00:42:39,800 actually can actually do well because 1008 00:42:47,860 --> 00:42:45,620 Obama yeah same i didn't elections and 1009 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:47,870 this is stupid but sometimes i feel like 1010 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:51,410 we always vote for the person or by and 1011 00:42:55,660 --> 00:42:53,810 large the American public wants the 1012 00:42:59,020 --> 00:42:55,670 candidate who could physically best the 1013 00:43:01,540 --> 00:42:59,030 other one I did right I mean think about 1014 00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:01,550 it but at first wagon village I was 1015 00:43:04,140 --> 00:43:03,620 originally liking Romney cuz he's been 1016 00:43:06,510 --> 00:43:04,150 hit 1017 00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:06,520 all the candidates know you're joking 1018 00:43:11,579 --> 00:43:10,000 really good-looking who because that's 1019 00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:11,589 what that's what the lump that's what 1020 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:13,150 people are saying about women is that 1021 00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:14,890 they vote for whatever candidate is 1022 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:16,270 handsome and people who are saying that 1023 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:17,710 have been labeled misogynist so it's 1024 00:43:20,819 --> 00:43:19,450 interesting to actually hear a woman say 1025 00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:20,829 dude I good I got to be honest though 1026 00:43:25,319 --> 00:43:23,049 after hearing the debate I was like whoa 1027 00:43:26,670 --> 00:43:25,329 that is the fur in my lifetime like 1028 00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:26,680 since I've been born that is the first 1029 00:43:31,740 --> 00:43:29,049 Republican candidate I've ever heard who 1030 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:31,750 speaks more fluidly than the Democratic 1031 00:43:36,089 --> 00:43:33,730 candidate yeah I mean that guy's smooth 1032 00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:36,099 he's big he's powerful he's handsome 1033 00:43:43,289 --> 00:43:41,470 like bench like well that's it Richard 1034 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:43,299 handles it why I don't trust 1035 00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:44,770 good-looking people because I associate 1036 00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:46,329 them with the surfers who made fun of my 1037 00:43:52,799 --> 00:43:49,119 like talent show Act you can't make your 1038 00:43:54,930 --> 00:43:52,809 own egos you trust me there's a message 1039 00:43:56,460 --> 00:43:54,940 if Richards I trust you yeah Rachel 1040 00:44:00,900 --> 00:43:56,470 let's be honest your talent show Act was 1041 00:44:02,130 --> 00:44:00,910 kind of good-looking I'm saying who 1042 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:02,140 could be I mean because I feel like we 1043 00:44:05,549 --> 00:44:03,490 want somebody you know if you think 1044 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:05,559 about my mama would be a little extra 1045 00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:07,930 snappier and faster like in a boxing 1046 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:10,510 match you mean like Obama see Obama 1047 00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:12,910 could have definitely taken out a little 1048 00:44:17,609 --> 00:44:15,250 whoever the last it was McCain yeah 1049 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:17,619 first I think if you have a match 1050 00:44:22,289 --> 00:44:19,930 between Romney and Obama let me why 1051 00:44:24,660 --> 00:44:22,299 we're seeing yeah well what a great time 1052 00:44:26,339 --> 00:44:24,670 it's been for the second hot tub brian 1053 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:26,349 thank you very much for hosting us all 1054 00:44:30,329 --> 00:44:28,450 most welcome and i want to thank 1055 00:44:32,339 --> 00:44:30,339 everybody who's taking part in that and 1056 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:32,349 the wonderful hot tub of truth and we 1057 00:44:36,510 --> 00:44:34,930 raise a glass to absent friends because 1058 00:44:37,859 --> 00:44:36,520 i know i was looking on facebook earlier 1059 00:44:40,859 --> 00:44:37,869 and i said we're going into the hot tub 1060 00:44:44,549 --> 00:44:40,869 i had so many people say i wish i was 1061 00:44:59,820 --> 00:44:44,559 there the cheers everybody and from the 1062 00:45:05,170 --> 00:45:02,950 hello on Allah needle on solo scoffs of 1063 00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:05,180 deployment been to an atlas another 1064 00:45:11,830 --> 00:45:07,310 skeptic zone for weeds and swap and 1065 00:45:31,230 --> 00:45:11,840 Katie Schneider I'm moving from RC 1066 00:45:35,350 --> 00:45:33,550 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1067 00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:35,360 zone on this hot and steamy day here in 1068 00:45:40,690 --> 00:45:37,040 Sydney I sort of wish I was back in that 1069 00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:40,700 hot tub of truth oh yes that was a lot 1070 00:45:44,980 --> 00:45:42,560 of fun what a good time I have with my 1071 00:45:47,950 --> 00:45:44,990 my good friends the skeptics especially 1072 00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:47,960 with my good buddy Brian Dunning what a 1073 00:45:53,860 --> 00:45:50,990 clown he is but what a good man on next 1074 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:53,870 week's show a brief report from me about 1075 00:45:59,710 --> 00:45:56,330 the recent mind body spirit mind body 1076 00:46:02,290 --> 00:45:59,720 wallet festival here in Sydney and I 1077 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:02,300 guess I wouldn't be out of place in 1078 00:46:07,420 --> 00:46:04,610 thinking that there'll be some more may 1079 00:46:10,090 --> 00:46:07,430 not as well and Maynard will be at the 1080 00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:10,100 convention in Melbourne I can't wait 1081 00:46:15,250 --> 00:46:12,640 Maynard at a skeptic convention is like 1082 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:15,260 it's like when you combine oh I don't 1083 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:18,410 know milk and chocolate and get 1084 00:46:23,110 --> 00:46:21,650 chocolate milk that's very deep isn't it 1085 00:46:24,820 --> 00:46:23,120 you know I'm going to think about that 1086 00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:24,830 for the rest of the week but until then 1087 00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:27,440 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1088 00:46:37,210 --> 00:46:33,920 from Sydney Australia you've been 1089 00:46:41,710 --> 00:46:37,220 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 1090 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:41,720 website at www skeptics on TV for